Les Croupiers Running Club Forum

Home | Results
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Lyndon Tudor Maisey Offline
#1 Posted : 31 December 2016 20:38:20(UTC)
Lyndon Tudor Maisey

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Approved, Les Croupiers member
Joined: 07/09/2013(UTC)
Posts: 737

Has liked: 586 post(s)
Likes received: 498 in 236 post(s)
I booked Wokingham before realising it is the same day as Gwent League! I have looked at getting a GFYA place in the Bath Half and have messaged the organisers but I am not sure if I would qualify. Martin Rees had a great run last year and it looks great!

I have looked at Wrexham, and various others but time is runnning out so I booked a place at Merthyr as I did suprisingly well before and I tend to peak around the end of March. At least I have one banked now!

I could do with one other perhaps end of Feb early March.Ideally a fast course, Any sugestions? I am not terribly organised this year.Sad

The best ones are selling out now! Crying

Edited by user 31 December 2016 23:48:27(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Lyndon Tudor Maisey Offline
#2 Posted : 01 January 2017 07:51:11(UTC)
Lyndon Tudor Maisey

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Approved, Les Croupiers member
Joined: 07/09/2013(UTC)
Posts: 737

Has liked: 586 post(s)
Likes received: 498 in 236 post(s)
After a lot of careful thought I think I have found the best Half for me! Mick was spot on about Wokingham being a good PB course as he has said in the past because of reasons below but what is the next best???

It is not just about the speed of the course, it is also important that there are plenty of fast runners when going for a PB. I think Wokingham is an excellent course but the next best is probably going to be a course like Bath or Reading.

I have likely missed out on Bath so I have booked a place at Reading. The timing is better than Wokingham as it will give me more time to prepare plus the field and course seem pretty decent with many 80% PB ratings on Runners World!

The information below is from 2013 but I think it gives a good clue. The finish in the Madejski Stadium sounds awesome!

Sub 75 minute race chart below.

http://i.picresize.com/UiaO

The reasons I believe more runners = better

I think there are two reasons that having more runners around you is better if you are trying to achieve a particular time goal (and once again, there is not a linear relationship here: I have seen the runners filling the road at around four and a half hour pace in the London marathon and I accept that if you are in the race at that pace, there are too many people and you are actually hindered from running faster).

The first is physical. There is not doubt that a strong wind is not our friend when it comes to running fast times. The first year I ran the Cambridge half marathon I worked hard after a couple of miles to close the gap to a group of four runners in front of me. Once I was there, the group worked really well together, taking turns on the front. In that group was the first lady – Holly Rush – who was given very loud and strict instructions to stay in that group and shelter from the head wind as much as possible by her coach, Martin Rush, who was on the pavement at a number of points as we passed by.

I have experienced exactly the same in many races myself – the London marathon this year was made much tougher by the fact that as I hit mile 22 there was no one around me and there was a distinct breeze into my face along the Embankment. A better chance came in the Bristol half this year, when after about 7 miles I ended up in a group with two other runners and we worked together into the head wind along the Portway back into town. Without that shelter, I would definitely have not managed 78 minutes two weeks after a 100km mountain race and the weekend after 80 minutes at the Run To The Beat.

I also think that there is a huge psychological advantage to running in a group. If everyone in the group get it right, each person can allow the group to pull them along for a while, relaxing and simply following the feet, letting someone else take responsibility for the pacing and sharing the responsibility.

This sort of pacing benefit was brought home to me at the Wokingham half marathon last year. In that race there was a veritable peloton of runners, all clicking off the miles at sub-75 minute pace. Working together, sharing the pacing and sheltering each other from the wind. It was a perfect example of a group working together and the results show the effect that grouping had with the following times posted:

74:02… 74:08… 74:09… 74:13… 74:15…
74:18… 74:18… 74:33… 74:35… 74:38…
74:41… 74:41… 74:43… 74:53… 74:53…

I realise of course that there are factors that come into play here. Some of the races are big events and by the very fact that they have tens or thousands of runners, there is a good chance that there will be fast runners. But that is not always the case: in the Royal Parks half marathon last year – on a flat course, in good conditions – there were exactly 5 runners under 75 minutes – that is 0.042% of the 11,764 finishers. Compare that to Wokingham 2013 where 1.74% of the field finished under 75 minutes and Reading where 0.62% achieved the same time. Admittedly these are not big numbers, but in the case of Reading that was 80 runners out of a field almost exactly the same size as the Royal Parks.

It should also be noted that I have not taken into account any weather conditions or course profile.

But I think that the reality is that if you are looking to run a fast half marathon, you will have a much, much better chance if you run one of the three races where there are the most other runners trying to do the same. For runners further down the field, there doesn’t seem to be any benefit from running in the bigger races, indeed the opposite is probably true, but once you are looking to run 1 hour 30 minutes or faster, the Bath, Reading and Great North Run races are simply the best.

Appendix:
Here are the races that are in the chart above:
Reading (79 runners under 75 minutes)
Great North Run (64)
Bath (63)
Bristol (48)
Wokingham (47)
Peterborough (37)
Cardiff (32)
Birmingham (31)
Nottingham (31)
Wilmslow (31)
Gosport (25)
Fleet (22)
Glasgow (22)
Paddock Wood (18)
Inverness (16)
Llanwddyn (16)
St Leonards On Sea (16)
Alloa (12)
Edinburgh (12)
Worksop (12)
Chester (11)
Helsby (11)
Liverpool (11)
York (11)
Sheffield (10)
Tunbridge Wells (10)
Cambridge (9)
Llanelli (8) My PB set here!

http://simonfreeman.co.u...-want-to-run-fast-times/

There have been numerous changes to the Reading course over the duration of its nine year organisational span which has resulted in a fast and flat route and an amazing finish in the magnificent Madejski Stadium.
The Reading Half Marathon not only takes in the highlights of the centre of Reading where you will experience huge crowd support but also still passes through the beautiful grounds of the University campus. The race culminates in a finish rarely found outside an Olympic stadium with over 15,000 people cheering you into the stadium and over the finish line. So whether you run for fun, run to stay fit, run for a club, or run professionally the Reading Half Marathon has the organisational capability, friendliness and reputation that are all second to none.

http://www.readinghalfmarathon.com/
Mick McGeoch Offline
#3 Posted : 01 January 2017 21:27:01(UTC)
Mick McGeoch

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Approved, Les Croupiers member
Joined: 13/08/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,234

Has liked: 1186 post(s)
Likes received: 1993 in 694 post(s)
You said "a lot" of careful thought Lyndon!
Choosing a race depends on lots of things. I initially chose Wokingham in 1994 to visit my sister!
It just happened to be a course I enjoyed so I ran it 9 times.
I also would recommend Lake Vyrnwy as a super fast course in a lovely location.
But these things depend so much on your personal circumstances.
You often mention work as being a restricting factor. So the last thing you need is to be rushing to or from the race, giving you additional worries.
The other thing is how your chosen half fits in with the rest of your running/racing commitments.
How much are you able to plan? The more the better.
And as James Bruce so often helpfully posts - come and train with club members on as regular basis as possible. Pick their brains. There's a massive amount of readily available help for you.
 4 users liked this post.
Lyndon Tudor Maisey on 02/01/2017(UTC), Short Circuit (Howard Kent) on 02/01/2017(UTC), Tracey Newman on 03/01/2017(UTC), jamesthebruce on 07/01/2017(UTC)
Lyndon Tudor Maisey Offline
#4 Posted : 06 January 2017 15:07:00(UTC)
Lyndon Tudor Maisey

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Approved, Les Croupiers member
Joined: 07/09/2013(UTC)
Posts: 737

Has liked: 586 post(s)
Likes received: 498 in 236 post(s)
I missed the boat on The Bath Half but managed to get in via GFYA.

It looks about the best one! I think I have booked the two best ones in Reading and Bath which happen to be at the best time for me.

If I do well at Bath It sounds like its worth running Reading just for the finish!

If I have any issues running either of them I still have Merthyr as a backup!

This should improve my chances and give me a bit more flexibility. It seems like a lot of money but against the work I have put in it really is not. I would rather have the choice leading up to the time.

Perhaps im a bit greedy but I have got two vices in life now, Coffee and running and I have got plenty of Coffee! Smile


Martin Rees speaking at Bath (at 4 minutes and 30 seconds).

https://youtu.be/p7gQ-sY_GEI
Lyndon Tudor Maisey Offline
#5 Posted : 06 January 2017 21:54:39(UTC)
Lyndon Tudor Maisey

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Approved, Les Croupiers member
Joined: 07/09/2013(UTC)
Posts: 737

Has liked: 586 post(s)
Likes received: 498 in 236 post(s)
Decent apraisal here.

Bath is a nice race, very well organised and it's a lovely city. The course is two laps which some people don't like but I don't mind it as at least you know what to expect in the final miles! Watch out for the short but sharp hill up to a square at about mile 3/8. And also be prepared for the long final mile back up to the start - it's not massively steep but at the end of a half it's a bit of a pain, so make sure you have something left for the final push!
jamesthebruce Offline
#6 Posted : 07 January 2017 12:45:06(UTC)
jamesthebruce

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Approved, Les Croupiers member
Joined: 11/08/2013(UTC)
Posts: 906

Has liked: 851 post(s)
Likes received: 562 in 280 post(s)
Mick your too kind.

To be honest there is a lot to be said for simplicity in my view.

Llanli is a bit like Ronseal - its never the fastest but is 45 mins down the motorway, its not the cheapest but its not 50-60 quid like bath. It doesn't sell out (hope i'm not tempting fate !). its a good simple race. also a fair few club runners run it too. I value having a friendly les croup at the start or end to ease nerves or pick me up when I've not quite hit my goal or vice versa. Don't underestimate the club factor. Everyone is different but it counts. when I Ran London last year, it is a helpful factor having good friends at the start to ease your nerves and have a beer with at the end too !, and to hope they go the time they wanted..

For example: I wont run Bath unless I stay fit till i'm 50 plus and can run 125 or better and get a free entry. As I'm not paying 45 quid for a half with no shirt on a moderate course which is gets mixed feedback some love it others not theirs..

For a summer half - without any competition its easy which is the best. its the half which is part of the CPR. Also one of the flattest courses you will find with a gradient suited to a strong finish. Phil (if you ask nicely) has let people just run this half and miss the other events its well organised as will all of Phils races, simple route, and that's what you generally need at your level for a good time. The races the club puts on are amoung the best around, and I don't want them to get any more full from a purely selfish perspective as I like the company but I don't enjoy getting around people.. in the Cardiff half I love the event its great but at 123 pace its manic at the start you get away but its a zoo of people with the typical people going to fast and they getting back.. that's why I like llanli races course are not the fastest and its not bands ever where and spectators but I don't want that I want clear running..

it will be interesting with run Swansea talking over llanli half how it works out.. so what this space.

ps see you Tuesday for reps.

james


Lyndon Tudor Maisey Offline
#7 Posted : 07 January 2017 13:21:11(UTC)
Lyndon Tudor Maisey

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Approved, Les Croupiers member
Joined: 07/09/2013(UTC)
Posts: 737

Has liked: 586 post(s)
Likes received: 498 in 236 post(s)
Originally Posted by: jamesthebruce Go to Quoted Post
Mick your too kind.

To be honest there is a lot to be said for simplicity in my view.

Llanli is a bit like Ronseal - its never the fastest but is 45 mins down the motorway, its not the cheapest but its not 50-60 quid like bath. It doesn't sell out (hope i'm not tempting fate !). its a good simple race. also a fair few club runners run it too. I value having a friendly les croup at the start or end to ease nerves or pick me up when I've not quite hit my goal or vice versa. Don't underestimate the club factor. Everyone is different but it counts. when I Ran London last year, it is a helpful factor having good friends at the start to ease your nerves and have a beer with at the end too !, and to hope they go the time they wanted..

For example: I wont run Bath unless I stay fit till i'm 50 plus and can run 125 or better and get a free entry. As I'm not paying 45 quid for a half with no shirt on a moderate course which is gets mixed feedback some love it others not theirs..

For a summer half - without any competition its easy which is the best. its the half which is part of the CPR. Also one of the flattest courses you will find with a gradient suited to a strong finish. Phil (if you ask nicely) has let people just run this half and miss the other events its well organised as will all of Phils races, simple route, and that's what you generally need at your level for a good time. The races the club puts on are amoung the best around, and I don't want them to get any more full from a purely selfish perspective as I like the company but I don't enjoy getting around people.. in the Cardiff half I love the event its great but at 123 pace its manic at the start you get away but its a zoo of people with the typical people going to fast and they getting back.. that's why I like llanli races course are not the fastest and its not bands ever where and spectators but I don't want that I want clear running..

it will be interesting with run Swansea talking over llanli half how it works out.. so what this space.

ps see you Tuesday for reps.

james




I got my PB at Llanelli but its very hit and miss Weather wise! If its good its great, if its bad its awful.

Of course there are never any gurantees so thats why you have to weigh things up. For me this year is all about smashing my PB and to do that I have to take advantage of every % of time I can scrape together. I need people to run with and shelter behind and gain a phycological advantage, Llaneli is technicaly one of the worst courses for that. On top of the weather it is very hit and miss.

I do like the social side but for me race day is all about the time.

We are all different and have our own opinions of what we want out of a race though and I respect that.

For instance you prefer Marathons and tricky courses and I like fast shorter courses with lots of people to shelter behind!

Your a stage 10 runner and im a stage 4 runner. You can keep your technical stuff, give me pancake flat every time! I do like to train on hills though! Smile

You simply cannot beat the club 10 though! It has everything, and on top of that it is my favourite distance!

The handicap will be one of the highlights of my year! I almost want to wrap myself up in cotton wool but tapering is not that far off of that and it will be coming around soon! I think perhaps James that is something we can agree on. Smile

Edited by user 07 January 2017 13:55:57(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Karen Chadwell Offline
#8 Posted : 07 January 2017 23:19:49(UTC)
Karen Chadwell

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Approved, Les Croupiers member
Joined: 20/08/2013(UTC)
Posts: 306

Has liked: 303 post(s)
Likes received: 295 in 124 post(s)
Lyndon - Bath Half - allow yourself oodles of time to get into the city/to the start. Chad & I both fans of the course as there's fab crowd support, but we haven't run it for a couple of years due to ridiculous high cost and travel nightmares with the park and ride.
 1 user liked this post.
Lyndon Tudor Maisey on 07/01/2017(UTC)
amanda thompson Offline
#9 Posted : 08 January 2017 10:28:56(UTC)
amanda thompson

Rank: Administration

Groups: Approved, Les Croupiers member
Joined: 10/08/2013(UTC)
Posts: 754

Has liked: 295 post(s)
Likes received: 766 in 308 post(s)
Before relying on Merthyr half (especially for a PB attempt) check with Phil that the course is accurately measured and certified.
 2 users liked this post.
Mick McGeoch on 08/01/2017(UTC), Lyndon Tudor Maisey on 08/01/2017(UTC)
Lyndon Tudor Maisey Offline
#10 Posted : 08 January 2017 12:00:51(UTC)
Lyndon Tudor Maisey

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Approved, Les Croupiers member
Joined: 07/09/2013(UTC)
Posts: 737

Has liked: 586 post(s)
Likes received: 498 in 236 post(s)
This was reccomended to me on another forum and looks very interesting. It could be food for thought for some on here if they are looking for something fast and different to do this year!

Great timing in April. Is it certified though? Very fast finishing times for a race of only 450 people and only 2 hours drive.


Where? Oxfordshire When? April
Set your sights on the White Horse Half-Marathon for charming rural scenery in spades as well as massive PB potential (as long as you can complete the course in under 2:30 - the race cut-off limit). This long-running fixture’s single-lap route winds through quiet country villages in the Vale of the White Horse, a corner of England named after the intriguing horse figure cut into the area’s striking chalk hillside. At around 3,000 years old and 374 feet long, the Bronze Age spectacle - Britain’s oldest and most famous hill figure - is an epic backdrop to this beautiful race.

"Great little race - nothing flash or fancy. You get a road (flat and quiet) and a race (perfect sized field and well marshalled). No carnival. No trinkets. Has the feel of luxury food packaged as Tesco's own brand. True quality without the hype." Welsh Gasman


http://whitehorseharrier.../04/2016_WHHM_Ind_01.pdf
Users browsing this topic
Guest
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Powered by YAF 1.9.6.1 | YAF © 2003-2024, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.258 seconds.