Les Croupiers Running Club Forum

Home | Results
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error
2 Pages12>
How slow is too slow to race? - Woman thrown out of race for running too slowly after 1.5 miles!
Options View Go to last post Go to first unread
Previous Topic Next Topic
Lyndon Tudor Maisey Offline
#1 Posted : 16 March 2015 13:02:12(UTC)
Lyndon Tudor Maisey

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Approved, Les Croupiers member
Joined: 07/09/2013(UTC)
Posts: 737

Has liked: 586 post(s)
Likes received: 498 in 236 post(s)
Apparently this is trending on twitter and it has caused an interesting debate. How slow is too slow and is this a simple matter of logistics or are the organisers being unfair?

Sometimes there seems to be a bit of a clash between elitist runners and the more recreational runners in the sport. Everybody has to start somewhere though and there are some great runners out there that probably started running at this pace. Should people therefore be banned for running too slowly?

A quote from the organisers is below.

I think this is an issue that needs to be discussed at the next committee meeting, however I stand by what I said, one complaint out of 300+ satisfied runners is a 100% record. Perhaps we should notify other race organisers about this person so she won’t do our race again or any one elses.

http://toofattorun.co.uk...cause-they-are-too-slow/
Back to top
Lyndon Tudor Maisey Offline
#2 Posted : 16 March 2015 13:47:44(UTC)
Lyndon Tudor Maisey

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Approved, Les Croupiers member
Joined: 07/09/2013(UTC)
Posts: 737

Has liked: 586 post(s)
Likes received: 498 in 236 post(s)
Someone claiming this...

I looked this up and it seems she was allowed to run half of it but chose not to (once told she was running too slowly). There was also an earlier start time for slower runners but she chose not to start early.

So totally not on her side for this. She should have started earlier. It isn't fair for volunteer marshalls to have to wait out for a lot longer just for her.

If thats true it demonstrates just how much social media can twist a story! I would certainly not side with her if thats the case! Blink
Back to top
 1 user liked this post.
matt hurford on 16/03/2015(UTC)
amanda thompson Offline
#3 Posted : 16 March 2015 14:19:57(UTC)
amanda thompson

Rank: Administration

Groups: Approved, Les Croupiers member
Joined: 10/08/2013(UTC)
Posts: 754

Has liked: 295 post(s)
Likes received: 766 in 308 post(s)
Apparently there was nothing mentioned in the race information or terms and conditions about expected pace or cut off times.

I agree with cut off times but you must make it clear up front and before the person makes a booking for the race. It is not fair to take a person's entry fee without them knowing exactly what they can and cannot do on the day. It is also fair and good practice to consider the marshals and officials, and make sure there isn't an undue call on their time.

Another point. Not everyone runs a race at the same pace. A good number of runners will start slower and increase their pace. Race organisers need to be aware of that before reprimanding someone at 1.5 mile into a 20 mile race.

A huge number of races are now suitable for all levels of ability. That's good. For those races where this is not the case, then publicise it well up front. This case has caused much negative attention for the organisers, rightly or wrongly.
Back to top
 1 user liked this post.
matt hurford on 16/03/2015(UTC)
Tracey Newman Offline
#4 Posted : 16 March 2015 15:02:24(UTC)
Tracey Newman

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Approved, Les Croupiers member
Joined: 12/09/2013(UTC)
Posts: 937

Has liked: 235 post(s)
Likes received: 504 in 253 post(s)
All races have a cut off point some are just more stricter than others. London has an eight hour limit however they have allowed people to take up to 48hrs or more. If it wasn't for the slower runners than many races wouldn't take place, however organisers have the right to pull a runner off if they believe it would be in the runner best interest. We could go the route as some countries have where runners are expected to produce a doctor certificate to say they are fit enough to participant.
Note Cardiff Half have allowed runners to take up to 3hrs and more to finish the course. Also should people be allow to participate if they are pull things like crosses or wear bouncy boots? All these can slow a person down as well as being dangerous!
Back to top
Oli Williams Offline
#5 Posted : 16 March 2015 18:55:53(UTC)
Oli Williams

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Unapproved
Joined: 15/08/2013(UTC)
Posts: 179

Has liked: 58 post(s)
Likes received: 187 in 59 post(s)
I'd say if you can walk faster than they're running, it's probably a bit slow!
I think we should also hold comments and opinions if we weren't actually there and are hearing it 2nd or 3rd hand..
Back to top
 6 users liked this post.
Andrew Sedgmond on 16/03/2015(UTC), Marcus Meyrick on 16/03/2015(UTC), mike rossiter on 17/03/2015(UTC), David John Williams on 17/03/2015(UTC), Jerome Edwards on 17/03/2015(UTC), tim o'sullivan on 17/03/2015(UTC)
Claire Bruce Offline
#6 Posted : 16 March 2015 20:20:01(UTC)
Claire Bruce

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Approved, Les Croupiers member
Joined: 13/08/2013(UTC)
Posts: 584

Has liked: 522 post(s)
Likes received: 589 in 233 post(s)

I think we should also hold comments and opinions if we weren't actually there and are hearing it 2nd or 3rd hand..[/quote]

I think there is more to this story than have been published. On a personal note I think all runners faster than me should be stopped but at a lot shorter than a mile and a half as I that is to far for me to have to race!!!
Back to top
matt hurford Offline
#7 Posted : 16 March 2015 21:54:40(UTC)
matt hurford

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Approved, Les Croupiers member
Joined: 12/08/2013(UTC)
Posts: 213

Has liked: 205 post(s)
Likes received: 63 in 41 post(s)
If they made it clear in the info sent to all runners when entering that the cut off was not getting to the 1.5mile point in 18 mins then fair enough. Otherwise she has every right to complain.
Back to top
 1 user liked this post.
Davey Proud on 17/03/2015(UTC)
David John Williams Offline
#8 Posted : 17 March 2015 09:14:21(UTC)
David John Williams

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Approved, Les Croupiers member
Joined: 02/05/2014(UTC)
Posts: 95

Has liked: 89 post(s)
Likes received: 24 in 13 post(s)
Whatever happened to common sense!
Back to top
Tracey Newman Offline
#9 Posted : 17 March 2015 09:41:26(UTC)
Tracey Newman

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Approved, Les Croupiers member
Joined: 12/09/2013(UTC)
Posts: 937

Has liked: 235 post(s)
Likes received: 504 in 253 post(s)
Mamy a power walker has beaten me in races!
Common sence is rare today
Under equal opps you can't stop anyone form doing anything
Media stories are never 100% actuarate!
Back to top
Jerome Edwards Offline
#10 Posted : 17 March 2015 12:09:31(UTC)
Jerome Edwards

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Approved, Les Croupiers member
Joined: 10/08/2013(UTC)
Posts: 99

Has liked: 77 post(s)
Likes received: 65 in 28 post(s)
As usual blown out of proportion by social media and the old media.

The club appear to have been very reasonable

http://www.athleticsweek...onds-spen-20-saga-19639/
Back to top
 5 users liked this post.
Ben Farag on 17/03/2015(UTC), Tracey Newman on 17/03/2015(UTC), amanda thompson on 17/03/2015(UTC), tim o'sullivan on 17/03/2015(UTC), matt hurford on 18/03/2015(UTC)
Tracey Newman Offline
#11 Posted : 17 March 2015 12:56:14(UTC)
Tracey Newman

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Approved, Les Croupiers member
Joined: 12/09/2013(UTC)
Posts: 937

Has liked: 235 post(s)
Likes received: 504 in 253 post(s)
They've just been talking abit this on Radio Wales and many people argee with the club. I do emphasize with the lady but still feel the club was right do this but should not of told her she was too slow. What I would tell this lady is to do some speed work and go back and prove this club wrong, and not to give up running I was pulled out of a lake district marathorn and was upset but I am determined have to got back and have another go, anyone is welcome to come and join me. The proble is that we tend to foucs too much on our failures and not on what we actually achieved. I'm tempted to try this race, anyone want to join me?
Everyone including the elities have bad races!
Back to top
David John Williams Offline
#12 Posted : 17 March 2015 13:29:17(UTC)
David John Williams

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Approved, Les Croupiers member
Joined: 02/05/2014(UTC)
Posts: 95

Has liked: 89 post(s)
Likes received: 24 in 13 post(s)
Tracey, unfortunately, you have missed my point!!
Back to top
Karen Chadwell Offline
#13 Posted : 17 March 2015 22:34:25(UTC)
Karen Chadwell

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Approved, Les Croupiers member
Joined: 20/08/2013(UTC)
Posts: 306

Has liked: 303 post(s)
Likes received: 295 in 124 post(s)
Jerome, having read the AW article, I disagree with your conclusion that the club has been very reasonable. The article seems to state that the time limit was implied by not directly stated. In my opinion, it's completely *unreasonable* to impose a time limit once a race has started ... I would be miffed no end if I entered, turned up and started a race, only to be told after 15-20 minutes that I would be pulled out at the halfway point if I didn't speed up. Reimbursement of my race fees would be no compensation whatsoever to the goal posts being unexpectedly moved.

Quite reasonable of course if a race organiser makes it clear before a race (is entered) that there's a time limit, and that that time limit will be strictly enforced.
Back to top
 1 user liked this post.
David John Williams on 18/03/2015(UTC)
roy silver
#14 Posted : 18 March 2015 07:53:27(UTC)
Guest

Rank: Guest

Groups: Guests
Joined: 10/08/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,448

Likes received: 6 in 6 post(s)
Ran a mountain race in Scotland 2 years ago. 5 check points at each check point if the runner did not reach in a set time you were pulled out of the race. No, arguments, no please can I carry on. No, I will go faster. No, tell the whole world how badly I am being treated and its all unfair.
This ruling was decided after the race had started, no one to my knowledge complained.
Back to top
David John Williams Offline
#15 Posted : 18 March 2015 08:59:20(UTC)
David John Williams

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Approved, Les Croupiers member
Joined: 02/05/2014(UTC)
Posts: 95

Has liked: 89 post(s)
Likes received: 24 in 13 post(s)
More often than not you are asked to therefore indicate what your anticipated time will be for the distance upon entering the race. Nonetheless, this lady entered the race and in doing so entered in to a contract with the race organiser. Unfortunately for the race organiser, it is clear that they failed to provide any relevant information within the terms and conditions with respect to any cut off time for the race. Furthermore, to impose a condition on this lady that she would not be able to finish the distance because too slow effectively forced her withdrawal from the race. This is somewhat unreasonable, and I believe the race organiser has failed to fulfil their end of the contract. The lesson to be learned from this experience is race organisers must clearly state a cut off time. Clearly a common sense approach in my opinion.
Back to top
Jerome Edwards Offline
#16 Posted : 18 March 2015 12:06:11(UTC)
Jerome Edwards

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Approved, Les Croupiers member
Joined: 10/08/2013(UTC)
Posts: 99

Has liked: 77 post(s)
Likes received: 65 in 28 post(s)
Karen I disagree with your conclusion that my conclusion about the club being reasonable was incorrect.

The club told her that she could go on to 10 miles at which point they would review her progress because they couldn't keep the race marshaled indefinably. Whats unreasonable about that?

Edited by user 18 March 2015 12:12:59(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
Back to top
amanda thompson Offline
#17 Posted : 18 March 2015 13:26:06(UTC)
amanda thompson

Rank: Administration

Groups: Approved, Les Croupiers member
Joined: 10/08/2013(UTC)
Posts: 754

Has liked: 295 post(s)
Likes received: 766 in 308 post(s)
The error here was the race organiser not stating a cut off time (and/or pace) within the race information, terms and conditions. Had they done that, then the request for her to withdraw would have been reasonable. This is all down to care, consideration and clear communication.

We had a similar situation at the CPR in 2012. Once we realised we had a slow runner in the group we asked her to start the half marathon early and we waited on the course for her to finish in 3 hr 08. Since then Phil has clearly stated a cut off time on the race information.

Back to top
 1 user liked this post.
matt hurford on 18/03/2015(UTC)
Tracey Newman Offline
#18 Posted : 18 March 2015 16:39:39(UTC)
Tracey Newman

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Approved, Les Croupiers member
Joined: 12/09/2013(UTC)
Posts: 937

Has liked: 235 post(s)
Likes received: 504 in 253 post(s)
Race organisors have a duty to inform runners of cut off times at time of entery they also have the right to pull runner off the courses if they believe a runner is struggling. However there is ways and means of telling a runner this without making the runner feel they are slow or incapable. The marshal in question could of passed his concerns to the next marshal and the race director before making a decision after all the lady hadn't long started.
One way of seeing if you can complete a race is look at the results of the last few runners and their split times and decide if you can match or beat that time.
I think as a results of this alot more races many start putting down cut off times, not in itself a bad thing but we don't want to put people off from running or competeing.
Back to top
Tim Green
#19 Posted : 19 March 2015 07:30:02(UTC)
Guest

Rank: Guest

Groups: Guests
Joined: 10/08/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,448

Likes received: 6 in 6 post(s)
I love a running controversy.

I think all races should announce cut off times after the starting gun, all marshals should have the power to remove anyone who "runs in a funny way", and anyone adopting a run-walk strategy should be put on the back of a cart and paraded through the streets.
Back to top
Evatt
#20 Posted : 19 March 2015 09:27:31(UTC)
Guest

Rank: Guest

Groups: Guests
Joined: 10/08/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,448

Likes received: 6 in 6 post(s)
Before commenting on this issue I wanted to get as much information on the whole episode as I could. So, over the last couple of days I've been conducting the kind of research that the fabulous Erin Brockovich would have been proud. The kind of investigation that has 'Wurlitzer Prize' written all over it.

I've spoken to the Spen 20 race organiser, Frank Reddington, who was also the marshall that spoke to this runner (???) just after the first mile marker.
I've also spoken to other eyewitnesses that saw events unfold right before their disbelieving eyes.
I tried to speak to Nettie.(I'm in no position to laugh at people with silly names but come on.........)
Nettie, was unavailable for comment. I was told by 'her people' that she was so distraught by the whole affair that she'd gone to Scotland to go swimming in a Loch.
One thing that Frank did mention,that hasn't been reported yet,is that she was dressed in a dressing gown and slippers-and had a fag in one hand and a bottle of milk in the other !!!!!!

So, to conclude, What was a middle aged woman doing at the Spen 20 when she should have been at home looking after her 12 kids and cooking lunch for her 42 stone husband ?????

All opinions should be directed to www.ihadmy15minutesoffame.co.uk !!!!!!

(NB - If Tracey Newman is going to respond to this it's C-U-M-M-I-N-G-S !!!!!!!)
Back to top
Users browsing this topic
Guest (2)
2 Pages12>
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

Powered by YAF 1.9.6.1 | YAF © 2003-2024, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 0.178 seconds.